Talk:Training the Trainers/February 2013 event

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Location[edit source]

Whilst Newcastle is a fantastic city, I'm not sure if it is the best location for this course - it would take me 3 hours to drive there and 4½ on the train. Of the six people who have signed up so far, at least four are based in the North West. I don't know where Katherine Bavage and Richard Nevell are based, but I get the impression that they're not from the Newcastle area either. So everyone is going to have to travel a long way, which would increase the costs and environmental impact. Of course, it is early days and North Easterners could still sign up, but I think it would be a better idea to change the location to Manchester. Alternatively, Leeds might be preferable as it is more central for both the North East and North West. Bazonka (talk) 20:44, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Personally speaking, Manchester would be much better for me; it would save several hours driving. (Or, failing that, Leeds / Liverpool / York / Sheffield / wherever). However, if a Newcastle is definitely nailed down and inflexible, so be it. Bobrayner (talk) 22:42, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
I queried the choice of location at the 8th Jan board meeting, on the basis that five of the potential attendees for this event were from Manchester, and the other two (Katherine and Richard) were from London, but I was (somewhat fairly) accused of micromanagement at that meeting as a result. The explanation of the location choice was that the office had selected this location so that it would generally appeal to to Scottish and Northern volunteers, who were going to appealed to by email based on our donor database, which is fair enough given that the last two training events were based in London. I'm looking forward to seeing the outcome of that appeal. At the same time, I would recommend that we hold a training event in the north west sometime soon. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 23:02, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
(COI note: I'm based in the north west, and I would like to undertake this training at some point, however I'm neutral as to the location that the training takes place as I'm equally happy to travel or not travel as appropriate). Mike Peel (talk) 23:12, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
Yes, that would be micromanagement at the board level. It's the kind of thing that should be overseen by the education committee, but I don't think that exists yet. --Tango (talk) 00:42, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
I agree that it was a good idea to try and get NE and Scotland editors involved in this course, and I can also see the point that an attempt to change this from the outset could be construed as micromanagement. But that was then and this is now. This call for interest has been open for some time now, and absolutely zero North Easterners or Scots have so far expressed an interest. The initial rationale for holding this event in Newcastle doesn't seem to have borne fruit, so at this stage it would be more pragmatism than micromanagement to reconsider the location. Of course there is still time for others to sign up (the geo-notice about the event has only recently been published), but presumably the longer this is left unaddressed, the harder it will be to change. I can make it to Newcastle (one of my favourite cities); my main concern is the cost of transporting several people to somewhere that they don't really need to go to. Bazonka (talk) 07:59, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
I'd concur that Newcastle is a very long way, given the lack of NE and Scottish people who are suggesting they'd like to come. Also, I'm curious to know how many spaces there are on the course? WormTT(talk) 08:49, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I'll chime in, that wherever it is, I'll likely be taking the train. I'm based just north of Manchester, so I'd personally prefer it to be near there, if it's not too late to change it. Mark M (Talk) 09:49, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Morning all! I am indeed 'London' based, but as Mike and others know I originally hail from Leeds and have family and my other half who could all put me up for free if needed :) Richard N is also based in London, but hails from Manchester.
That said, I have no objection to Newcastle, and me and Daria have ID'd 500+ donors in our database with Newcastle as their city, and 16 members based in Scotland or Newcastle. If the email generated a high expression of interest perhaps the Chapter would have to consider running two sessions - one in Manc/Leeds and one in Newcastle at a later date? I'll draw this thread to Daria's attention Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 09:57, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
There are 12 spaces on the course. This event has not been promoted widely until now because of lack of approval, so the expectation is that we will be getting more bookings within the next month. Daria Cybulska (WMUK) (talk) 10:54, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Thanks Daria. I know Stacey (my partner) would be interested if there are empty spaces, but she's not keen on taking a spot from someone who spends more time on the encyclopedia. I'll keep an eye on the number of spots! WormTT(talk) 11:35, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

Getting the right place is/was always going to be tricky but AT LEAST IT ISN'T LONDON! We are not insane, if nobody from the NE or Scotland comes forward we will consider other options but these are two areas we are weak in and need to build capacity, that is why we chose them. Sorry about the 'micromanaging' comment but a month before an event we cannot re-open the debate and this is a decision that should not be made at a board level. We have wikis to consult people on and staff to organise things based on that. Staff now have the go-ahead, after the board meeting on Tuesday, to plan the next event. If Newcastle won't work we could adjust. In a much more positive note we agreed the budget as well on Tuesday with the chance of two more Train the Trainers. My favourite places, based on need (not pubs or art cinemas), would be Cardiff or Bristol, Manchester or Liverpool, a city in the Esat or West Midlands or Southampton. I hope the Education Committee can start taking a lead on this. Any other suggestions to Daria Jon Davies (WMUK) (talk) 13:06, 11 January 2013 (UTC)

I am going to move my commitment to attend this event onto the back burner if an alternative NW event is on the cards. Newcastle really is a pain to get to (London is much easier!). My personal view is that having a local base of editors is all well and good, but really to get them to sign up to something like this, then they already need to be active in extra-curricular Wiki stuff. The best way to do this is to start building an off-line community with regular Wikimeets. (As far as I know, there have never been meetups in Newcastle, Edinburgh, Leeds, or anywhere in that direction.) I would certainly have never considered signing up to a train the trainer event if I wasn't already active in attending Wikimeets in the North West, and whilst this wouldn't be the case for everyone, I think it is probably the majority view. Bazonka (talk) 17:49, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Are there actually any attendees based in the north-east, if not Newcastle?
If there is actually a commitment for future sessions to be near where attendees are based, but if this session can't move, then I'll sit it out and wait for one which is closer to me. If it were "Newcastle or nothing" then I'd drive across the country, of course. Bobrayner (talk) 00:26, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Jon, with regard to this point: but these are two areas we are weak in and need to build capacity, that is why we chose them. "Train the Trainers" seems, on a strategic level, to be the sort of session you run once you have a group of volunteers with interest - i.e. to develop the group as trainers and volunteers. It seems badly suited to attracting newbie volunteers... I think a Manchester session, as one of the major other clusters of active volunteers, is an important target. --ErrantX (talk) 14:19, 14 January 2013 (UTC)

Manchester[edit source]

After the above discussion it has been decided that the February Train the Trainers event will be held in Manchester. The dates remain the same. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 13:43, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

To echo ErrantX above, there's a psychological barrier for many editors to get together in meatspace. Once folks have actually met together, they enjoy it and will usually meet up again. The problem is that a whole weekend, which is needed for TfT, is a big commitment, and adding the anticipation of training with meeting other Wikimedians for the first time is likely to put off all but the most extrovert of editors (and there's not many of us about).
I suggest that getting folks together for social events, like the wikimeets is the ice-breaker needed. Editors can stay for as long or as short as they want, and there is a positive effort from the regulars to make them feel welcome. Once editors have got past that stage and are comfortable with each other, it is much easier to involve them in local projects and events. If I'm right about this, then the next TfT should be in Cambridge to capitalise on the regular wikimeets there, and we need to encourage wikimeets in Nottingham/Derby, Sheffield/Leeds, Newcastle, and Glasgow/Edinburgh. I just saw Adam Cuerden writing "it'd be nice to talk Wikipedia with someone for once" (he's in Edinburgh), and Cutiekatie (who comes to Manchester wikimeets and has signed up here) lives "in the middle of Scotland". There's a start for the Volunteer Development joblist. --RexxS (talk) 17:30, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
Good call with rescheduling to Manchester, and I totally agree with RexxS. And don't forget Belfast as well - there must be plenty of NI editors. Bazonka (talk) 17:32, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Crashing space[edit source]

If there's anyone travelling to this event from quite far away and doesn't want to fork out for a hotel, I live in a flat in Manchester city centre and would be more than happy to offer my sofa, a blanket, and pillows to someone who wants it. --Deskana (talk) (email) 13:55, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

That's very generous Deskana. WMUK has offered to cover accommodation costs for those who need to stay in Manchester overnight. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 16:43, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Detailed sign up[edit source]

The material below was copied from the sign up page to make it easier to read.
  1. I would be interested. I work as an ambassador on en.wikipedia, helping students and their tutors figure out how to edit wikipedia as part of their courses. Off-wiki, I work in a specialist field of IT and have had various coaching & training work here & there, but I haven't yet made it a full-time job - would like to put more emphasis on training in future. Northwest would be easier for me than Northeast, but I can travel... Bobrayner (talk) 15:54, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
    Manchester is good for me. Looking forward to seeing y'all. Bobrayner (talk) 23:11, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
  2. Would be very interested in helping out in any events up north, happy to travel a fair distance to help out too. I've been a trainer at university for a student helpline society and provided training whilst working in a customer service role a few years ago. I've been on similar courses twice, but about 10 years ago, so could certainly do with a refresher. WormTT(talk) 10:57, 21 November 2012 (UTC) Confirming Manchester is still fine for me, and also for Stacey (per talk page) WormTT(talk) 15:30, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
  3. w:en:User:Staceydolxx - if there are spaces. Please contact WormTT(talk) 11:10, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
    Yes please - I'd be interested in going to improve my own editing skills and to be able to offer more staff support to training sessions as needed next year. I'll probably be heading to Leeds before/after, but can help with taking training materials to/from London and the venue as needed. Obviously, I think volunteers receiving the training is a higher priority, so if numbers grow larger nearer the time I'm happy for someone from the community to have a place instead of me. Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 14:38, 21 November 2012 (UTC)
    Sorry all, I have to be elsewhere for a family commitment that weekend it has now transpired :( I wasn't the top priority attendee as it is anyway, but I hope I can come to a future session! Katherine Bavage (WMUK) (talk) 14:54, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
  4. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 17:16, 23 November 2012 (UTC)
    Still going to the training now it's in Manchester. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 10:33, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
  5. I'm interested in this. I'd also prefer closer to Manchester; but it's no big deal. :-) Mark M (Talk) 15:51, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
    Richard asked me to confirm, with the new location, so I will: I am still able and want to attend. Thanks! Mark M (talk) 16:33, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
  6. Sign me up Scotty. Now it's been moved to Manchester, this makes things so much easier. Bazonka (talk) 17:30, 18 January 2013 (UTC) — I'm also interested in this. I have run training courses at work before, but I've never had any formal training in what to do. Newcastle is not an ideal place to get to — I too would prefer the North West — but it's a great city, and the Saturday night would make a good opportunity for the 1st Newcastle Wikimeet. Bazonka (talk) 20:21, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
    I've added a comment on the Talk page about the location. Bazonka (talk) 20:45, 10 January 2013 (UTC)
  7. Julia Charlton I am a university lecturer and qualified teacher so I should have the skills needed, but I would like to know more aobut Wikipedia so I can help train other volunteers. I am resident nea rNewcastle so the venue is great for me.
    the chapter is waiting for a confirmation after the location change
  8. I'm interested. I don't have any specific training experience, though i am a qualified TEFL teacher and also have a lot of experience leading youth groups so i'm sure that has given me a lot of transferable skills. However I live in the middle of Scotland so would need accomodation on the friday and saturday. Cutiekatie (Talk) 18.56, 13 January 2013 (UTC)
    the chapter is waiting for a confirmation after the location change
  9. I'm interested in this but i would prefer something in the Midlands area, ie within 50 miles east of Birmingham, but Newcastle is not too far to go for something as worthwhile as Wikipedia, and in my own personal interest, it would possibly be something to put on my CV seeing as i'm still looking for work!
    the chapter has tried contacting this person, but it will be removed if there is no response.Daria Cybulska (WMUK) (talk) 15:16, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
  10. Good morning. I am an experienced trainer in art, media & broadcast spheres and a youth coach with experience of over 10 years, inside and outside of the UK. An intellectual, very inspired by Wikimedia and what it can offer. The venue and date in February is suitable for me. Going forward I am on a flexible working schedule and can commit to delivering training for Wikimedia. Please contact on
    the chapter has tried contacting this person, but it will be removed if there is no response.Daria Cybulska (WMUK) (talk) 15:16, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
  11. Sounds good to me. I would be interested to see how my experience teaching students at university translates into this. I live in Manchester city centre, so let me know if you need help setting up for the days or anything. --Deskana (talk) (email) 13:42, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
  12. Would love to come - am just checking on practical details. PatHadley (talk) 15:47, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
  13. Please could I be added to a reserve list for this session? If there's a spare place then I'd be happy to fill it, but that's only if we run short of attendees for this event. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 20:56, 22 January 2013 (UTC)
  14. I am a student of University of Salford currently doing Masters in Audio Acoustics. I have experience in giving training to youth for personality development & leadership. I am currently living close to Manchester & would love to help in utilizing my time to help people who are interested in contributing to Wikipedia. (email)Jyrejoice (talk) 23:16, 23 January 2013 (UTC)
  15. I am interested at running teaching sessions at my university. I would be interested in attending, though I will need to check practical details - it's a 5 hour journey from Norwich so it may not be easy. Please contact me via my talk page at the English Wikipedia. --LukeSurl (talk) 16:32, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
  16. I am a qualified EFL teacher. Most of my experience has been with adult learners. My approach to training would be to encourage active participation from people on courses. I have a degree in history, but contribute to WP on a fairly wide range of topics. Best place to contact me is my talkpage at English WP. --Thoughtfortheday (talk) 22:04, 25 January 2013 (UTC) P.S. Help with travel costs (from Cumbria) would be appreciated. -Thoughtfortheday (talk) 18:17, 6 February 2013 (UTC)
    WMUK will meet your costs in full for travelling to and from the event (standard rail fare usually) if you supply proof of the cost. I normally book through or similar in advance and print out the receipt, then hand that in. --RexxS (talk) 09:37, 7 February 2013 (UTC)
    Thanks for the info....should come to about 30. I am awaiting confirmation that I am definitely on the course. -Thoughtfortheday (talk) 10:59, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
  17. Julia W (talk)
  18. Please could I be added to a reserve list for this session? If there's a spare place then I'd be happy to fill it, but that's only if we run short of attendees for this event. Thanks. For anyone who doesn't know I worked in schools, FE and Adult Ed at the AMC in the early eighties. --ClemRutter (talk) 19:12, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Next venue[edit source]

It's great to see the amount of interest in TfT and I would like to make sure we don't miss out on getting all the interested folks involved. To that end, would it make sense to provisionally commit to a rough geographical area for the next TfT, so that anybody who is disappointed this time can be relatively sure of getting a place on the following TfT conveniently accessible for them? I would suggest either London (removes room costs and accessible by rail) or Cambridge (as we have a number of regular Wikimedians who go to the Cambridge meetups). LukeSurl is in Norwich, and although I know Clem Rutter doesn't mind travelling, he lives in Kent, if I recall correctly, so a closer venue may still be more convenient for him. We still should plan for a TfT in the North-East, but it may be better to wait for the promised wikimeets in that region to get established before we commit to e.g. Newcastle. Thoughts? --RexxS (talk) 21:02, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

More detail[edit source]

What is the venue? The "where and when" section just mentions Manchester. Is there a particular hotel? Bobrayner (talk) 12:27, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

Hi Bob, the details have just been added to the event page.
The venue for the Training the Trainers event will be the Holiday Inn Hotel Manchester West, which also provides accommodation. It is on Liverpool Street, M5 4LT, on the corner of Liverpool Street and W Dean Street. It is about 0.9 miles from Deansgate-Castlefield Metrolink station.

Manchester Piccadilly is the largest mainline station in Manchester, and trams to Deansgate-Castlefield are regular. Getting on a tram to either Eccles or Altrincham will take you via Deansgate-Castlefield.

Getting from the hotel back to the station you will need to catch a tram to Piccadilly directly. They will be less frequent but still regular on Sunday.

There is free parking for people with cars, and the hotel is near junction 3 of the M602.

I hope that helps, and if you've got any questions don't hesitate to get in touch. I'll be leaving a note about the venue on the pages of people who have expressed interest. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 13:28, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Thanks! Bobrayner (talk) 14:34, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Pretty please?[edit source]

If I understand correctly, ClemRutter said he only wants to come "if there's a spare space".. so how exactly I am suppose to interpret the decision to add me to the reserve list, given that I signed up in November? I am quite interested in coming.. I am a Lecturer at Lancaster University, and I was planning on using this course to put on a session here at the University for interested colleagues.. If my small edit count is putting you off, I have been a Wikipedia editor since 2004 with another username which is not associated to my real name. I understand space is limited, but sheesh, what's a guy have to do! Mark M (talk) 16:25, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

While you have been on the list since November, we haven't selected people on a first-come first-serve basis. In the sign up section people were asked to briefly give details of their training experience. The problem was you didn't give much detail when you signed up, and there's nothing on your user page to help inform our decisions. The fact you just told us that you want to run a course at your University makes the decision more difficult. I can't promise anything, but things aren't set in stone just yet. We called up the trainers, but they can't budge on the numbers they can accommodate. I will have news for you tomorrow morning, but it may be that you have to wait until the next event. Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 16:54, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
You're right, I should have said more on the sign up page. By the way, there is still a watchlist banner on English Wikipedia telling more people to come and sign up for this event. Mark M (talk) 17:03, 12 February 2013 (UTC)

Local travel in Manchester[edit source]

I'm based in Manchester, and have a car. Given that the location is somewhat out of the way for public transport, I'd be happy to provide some local transport for other attendees getting to/from the event. Please email me your schedule and I'll do my best to help on a first-come first-serve basis. Thanks. Mike Peel (talk) 21:32, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Thanks[edit source]

Thanks, all, for a good weekend. It went quite well, I think... Bobrayner (talk) 20:30, 24 February 2013 (UTC)

+1 Mike Peel (talk) 21:07, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Agreed! --Deskana (talk) (email) 23:11, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
Definitely a really good couple of days! Great to meet you all and looking forward to more opportunities PatHadley (talk) 11:49, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
Was a great weekend. Thanks all! WormTT(talk) 13:06, 25 February 2013 (UTC)
I had; on the whole; I good weekend. Unfortunately, I was upset by a comment from one of the trainers which knocked my confidence and therefore I didn't feel able to take part in the presentations (Added to the fact that without sleep; I don't function particularly well!). I am a bit disappointed that I missed the performances; though I hear it went fantastically well and everyone did a great job. Thanks to everyone who attended; you were all very kind to the fact I haven't got much knowledge of Wikipedia, special thanks to Richard & Mike who did a great job of the presentation even though we had more than 6 slides! The whole group taking part were fantastic and I feel proud to be part of the Wikipedia community. (P.S. Regardless of finishing the course, I am starting to plan my first potential training event)Staceydolxx (talk) 12:02, 26 February 2013 (UTC)
Our presentation would have been much poorer without your help Stacey. We'll make sure that all feedback reaches the trainers. I'm glad you enjoyed the weekend otherwise, and the office would love to hear about what events you're planning! Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 16:44, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
Good to meet you all, and I look forward to some kind of reunion in due course. Alan Maher (aka Thoughtfortheday) (talk) 10:16, 27 February 2013 (UTC)
Not least of which could be at the next Manchester meetup! --RexxS (talk) 16:32, 7 March 2013 (UTC)
Excellent fun-excellent company.--ClemRutter (talk) 14:09, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

Bibliography[edit source]

Jot down here any recommendations you think others may benefit from. --RexxS (talk) 19:35, 27 February 2013 (UTC)

  • Berry, Cicely (1973). Voice and the Actor. London: Harrap. ISBN 0245520120.  - see also w:en:Cicely Berry

Feedback[edit source]

If anyone wants to leave feedback they can do so here or feel free to email me at Richard Nevell (WMUK) (talk) 13:32, 4 March 2013 (UTC)